How you can help

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How you can help

Postby kgschlosser » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:46 pm

I think in here if maybe we lay down what you know how to do, and what you are willing to learn. and in what way you feel you could help EG.

and from that maybe just possibly a group can be put together with tasks that will be suited for them. because no is going to do their best at something they do not want to do. so this would be a start. gotta know what you know and what your are willing to do.
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Re: How you can help

Postby jachin99 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:27 am

I for one would like to help out somewhere but the extent of my programming knowledge ends at drawing a small animation in java on a simulated IDE, and displaying hello world in C. I want to learn programming because I am a security guy but I think having the ability to look over code might come in handy, and it would give me better marketability. My time is pretty limited because security certs and training pay my bills. What might be helpful to some is a list of what the site needs. I am not saying exclude those who volunteer their skills but having a general idea about what is needed might help guide the discussion. One thing I can do really well is write. A complaint about the site I have is that I always have to log in twice so if I can somehow learn how to fix that, then I may try to pitch in. I like collaborative efforts because as you have said before, they give others the ability to learn
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Re: How you can help

Postby kgschlosser » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:16 am

LOL @ the logging in 2 times. I didn't know if i was crazy but I have to do the same as well. but not 100% of the time. and it most often happens from my cell phone.


and Oh I forgot to post in here.

Hello my name is K and I'm an EG-aholic

This is a list of some of the certifications I hold
A+, N+, L+, S+, MCSE, (MCP, MCSA are kind of included in the MCSA), CNE (CNA is in the CNE), CPO and a few other sets of letters.

I took up programming a little under 2 years ago. And I love it. Current knowledge of C, C++, some HTML, some Java, and Python.
My strong area of computers is Networking but I am pretty well versed in most facets of them. I have worked on system from an AS-400, RS-6000 all the way up the line to Blade Servers. worked on Liebert Battery Backup Systems (the large ones that hold up server farms). I am familiar with component level electronics and electrical engineering. Did some work designing interfaces for vehicles specifically bypassing the Immobilizer systems built into most cars today. I love audio me and a buddy built the worlds loudest car. Held the record for 10 or so years.

I am a problem solver. and i don't believe in "it can't be done" it can always be done. just might not be able to at our current technological level but at some point it can be done. And I hate paying someone for something that with a little bit of reading and learning I can do myself.
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Re: How you can help

Postby PaulBags » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:32 am

I might not ever be able to help out but I recently came across EG and very much like it. I'm a slow learner with bad memory and little experience, I know enough to google things and podge stuff together - barely a script kiddie. Most of what I've done code/script wise is personal html/css, and that infrequently enough that I generally have to google multiple things that I've done before in order to do them again. I did do some CCNA, but dropped out mid semester 3 and whatever fragments I do remember are likely well out of date.

Now that I've come across EG I intend to work through the code academy python course. There are a couple of plugins I'd like to see additional features for, right now the height of my aspirations EG wise is tweaking them - if I'm ever capable. Right now the most I could do is make suggestions and provide feedback.

One thing I do have is time, currently and for the foreseeable future my day job is part time. Not helpful if I don't have any skills useful to the project, however.
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Re: How you can help

Postby kgschlosser » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:32 pm

everyone has some kind of a useful skill. we just need to find it in ya. :wink:
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Re: How you can help

Postby pearbear » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:39 am

jachin99 wrote:What might be helpful to some is a list of what the site needs.

My biggest gripe about this website is the wiki is not editable. It makes it seem like you can because there's a log in but when you try to log in you just get a page of error messages. I'm even a member of the "wiki" usergroup but that doesn't seem to do anything. I understand that some sites restrict wiki editing to prevent spam and vandalism, though I think that publicly editable wikis are far superior, but if that's the case there should at least be some kind of a sensible way of conveying that information instead of the current completely broken system. I know I would have spent some of my time contributing to the wiki if I was able and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Another option would be to move the wiki to the EventGhost GitHub repository. GitHub's wiki is not the greatest but it does work. I like GitHub Flavored Markdown a lot. The ability to review the edit history is really not very good though, a very important feature for dealing with spam/vandalism. However, I have noticed almost none of that happening even to very popular wikis on GitHub, I'm not sure why. The biggest downside to that idea is it requires a GitHub account to edit the wiki. It's free and easy to sign up but this extra hassle may discourage users from contributing. They are probably more likely to already have an eventghost.net account, though GitHub is very popular so I'm sure many EG users do have an account there already.

Other than that the website seems to work well enough. I know there was a lot of other discussion of work on the website in http://www.eventghost.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9068 before it was derailed by drama.

More interesting to me is the question of what the EventGhost application needs. A decent start at a list is available at:
https://github.com/EventGhost/EventGhost/issues
Of course the question of whether development of the mainstream EventGhost has completely halted has not been answered so the ability of the community to contribute may be somewhat limited but there's always the option of moving forward with a fork if the people in charge of the main repositories remain inactive.

So what else can we do to help?
Some are listed here:
http://eventghost.net/docs/contributing.html


these are a few more I came up with:
  • Report bugs in EventGhost
  • Report bugs in plugins
  • Tell people about EventGhost, publicly document your EG projects
  • Click on the ads on the EventGhost website(I believe this increases the advertising income that supports the website)
  • submit or review pull requests for improvements to EventGhost or bug fixes

As for what I can do personally. I think I could best contribute to writing or editing documentation. Maybe some other grunt-type work that just requires someone reasonably competent that is willing to invest some time. I've done some work with the plugins but my Python skills are not that great. I've certainly been interested in trying to make some more contributions to the EventGhost community beyond the little things I've done so far but it just seems like there's not a good infrastructure and a receptive environment for getting involved. I do a lot of work in the Arduino world and find it's so much easier to find opportunities to make a real contribution to that community at almost any skill level and amount of time available to you. It took a bit of effort for them to set things up that way but it has paid off many times over for that community. There is a difference between Arduino and EventGhost in that Arduino does have an income from selling their hardware so they can afford to pay some developers to write code and coordinate volunteer contributions but a lot of that ecosystem is run completely by the community.

Maybe if EventGhost grew more and the website was used more effectively to generate income(via ads and donations) it would be possible to create a paid position to administrate the application development. I know that zian recently said the ads pay for the website "plus sum" but I'm not sure how much that extra is or where it's currently going. I know that most of the donation links were recently removed and there's no way to say if they were bringing in any income since I think they were previously routed to BitMonster. Of course that process would open up a whole can of worms and judging from the apparent complete lack of ability to come to a consensus on anything by the main people here it may be an unfeasible proposition.
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Re: How you can help

Postby kgschlosser » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:29 am

well I was looking for something more along the lines of what can you do and how come you not doing it right now!!! LOL. No but seriously something you would like to do. and the keyword being like. as in you like doing. even if you aren't proficient in the task that is something that comes with time. I think the thing is in order to keep someone doing a specific task they have to enjoy what they are doing and that's what keeps them coming back to do it. so asking someone to do something they do not want to do is not going to make this project move forward. the trick is to find tasks that people enjoy doing. that i believe is the first and foremost thing. and if it's a task that needs to be expedited then we get more than one person on it.
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Re: How you can help

Postby pearbear » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:38 am

kgschlosser wrote:well I was looking for something more along the lines of what can you do and how come you not doing it right now!!! LOL. No but seriously something you would like to do. and the keyword being like.

Well I think I did answer that but maybe got off on some tangents along the way. I'd like to do whatever I'm capable of that will actually be of benefit to the community. The problem is finding out what that might be is very difficult in the current environment. For example, I'd like to spend some time editing the wiki but I can't because it's broken. I'd like to do some testing of the beta release and reporting bugs but it's uncertain whether anyone will act on those bug reports and where the correct place to report them is now. I saw an opportunity to do something I am good at(and think would be a beneficial to EventGhost) here: https://github.com/EventGhost/EventGhost/issues/18#issuecomment-230185022
The foundation for this[Migrate from reStructuredText to Markdown] is now complete as of #59. All that remains is:
  • Convert plugin descriptions -- possible now, but I'm in no rush.

but then I see there is some controversy about doing that and it's unclear whether the pull request with the markdown conversions would even have a chance of being merged or if it would just end up being ignored in a dead repository.

What I need, and I suspect I'm not the only one, is for people with the authority to make things happen to make a definitive statement about where things are going. If someone says "we need someone to do this grunt work and if it's done competently it will be merged" and it's something I'm capable of then I'll make time for it. Otherwise I'll just work on my own public EventGhost projects as I find features I can add or bugs to fix and will continue telling people about the awesomeness that is EventGhost while I wait for an opportunity to do more. I think there is a real resource of willing volunteers available to EventGhost that just isn't being utilized(or driven away in the case of dequi). I know there are others who are in the same position as me and some have much more to offer. For example, I know that WoLpH has tried to contribute and it seems like topik2k is interested in continuing but they're just being left hanging and these opportunities won't last forever.
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Re: How you can help

Postby jachin99 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:37 pm

I see a lot of what pearbear is describing. The owners of the site and program need to enable their volunteers. There hasnt been anyone driving the project. Most of the effort on the site on the part of the owning parties has been focused on bickering. Event ghost has been around for a long time and is fairly well known but i dont see there being much progress on the project any time soon. Its probably time for a fork before EG dies all together.
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Re: How you can help

Postby kgschlosser » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:35 pm

jachin99 wrote: The owners of the site and program need to enable their volunteers. There hasnt been anyone driving the project.


OH! HOG HOOEY!!!

lets play a game of what if....

what if...

you had been enabled to do a particular task. for instance lets use pearbear's wanting to help out with the documentation and wiki. what exactly would he do. document the different aspects of EventGhost and post it on wiki. right???


now take the what if out of the equation.

it's still the same deal. except he can't post it on the wiki. but the documentation can be written and when finished it can be given to the person who does have access. and that person would then copy and paste it??!?!?

in my honest opinion there is nothing stopping this thing from moving forward. access to do most things is not needed. like what I am going to do is get this version of EG I am working on done. and then "submit it" to the masses and get some feedback. and if the powers that be decide that it's going to be the next latest and greatest EG then HOORAY!! and if not. I get to keep it all for myself MUAHAHAHA!!!...

if you think the EG site sucks. then make a new one. provide a means for whomever to take a look see and possibly it can be the next website. but there is nothing that is stopping anyone from doing anything. no one needs to have access to the web hosting account or anything else like that to be able to help with EG. grab the proverbial bull by the horns and do it. I can't imagine that if you wrote up a bunch of documentation that you would be told "Nah go away we aren't going to add any documentation". come on now. think about it. and ya know something. call it proving yourself. because if what you do is exceptional I am almost sure at that point you would have the access you desire. but there has to be some sort of proof that you aren't just blowing smoke, and that you are dedicated to helping. because I am sure there have been all kinds of people saying they want to help. but in the end they don't do a thing.

that's my nickles worth. i would have said my 2 cents but that's more then 2 cents worth
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Re: How you can help

Postby pearbear » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:30 pm

kgschlosser wrote:when finished it can be given to the person who does have access. and that person would then copy and paste it??!?!?

There are a couple of issues with that. First of all, how do I give it to this person? How would I know who to give it to. Should I post it to the forum? Would the person with the access see that post? If that's actually the the accepted system for updating the wiki then that should be clearly documented. Second, this is an extremely inefficient process. It takes a lot of effort from the person suggesting the edit and also from the person who has to accept and implement it. We have computers to make out lives easier. There's a good chance that the work to do a single edit would be about the same as just fixing the wiki login. If someone just wants to fix a typo or something most won't bother if they have to jump through a bunch of hoops.

kgschlosser wrote:if you think the EG site sucks.

I'm not sure where that's coming from. Certainly not from me. I think the EventGhost site is pretty nice. Always room for improvement of course.

kgschlosser wrote: I can't imagine that if you wrote up a bunch of documentation that you would be told "Nah go away we aren't going to add any documentation". come on now. think about it. and ya know something. call it proving yourself. because if what you do is exceptional I am almost sure at that point you would have the access you desire. but there has to be some sort of proof that you aren't just blowing smoke, and that you are dedicated to helping. because I am sure there have been all kinds of people saying they want to help. but in the end they don't do a thing.

You're completely missing my point. Look at wikipedia, look at the Arduino Playground, etc. An infrastructure was created to allow people to easily contribute and something amazing happened from the accumulation of little bits of work from many different people. Without the initial infrastructure to facilitate all that there's no way these things would have reached the levels they have. If each of those people had to somehow correctly guess where they should send their suggested edits with no way of knowing if it would be ignored, if someone had to administrate all those edits, if each contributor had to "prove themselves" and then be given unnecessary levels of access permissions it would be a shadow of what it is.

I'm not saying I'm going to write a bunch of documentation. The documentation is pretty good already. I'm talking about small improvements but they do add up. For example, on http://www.eventghost.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Controlling_your_living_room_with_EventGhost:
This article teaches you one that involve an innovative, free program called EventGhost

should be:
This article teaches you one that involves an innovative, free program called EventGhost

That's a super minor change. Anyone can understand what the current statement means. There's no huge motivation for me to suggest this change or for the person with access to make the effort to implement the edit but if I was reading that page and noticed the problem and it was quick and easy to fix it then I would make the effort and EventGhost would be better for it. The amount better is microscopic but if you have thousands of people all making small improvements from time to time then it really does add up. Maybe someone else would come along and reword that awkward sentence.
I shouldn't need to "prove myself" to be considered worthy to make a contribution. I've already done some things for EventGhost but I put more of my time towards Arduino because I don't get this sort of "prove yourself worthy to volunteer your time" attitude from that community. They're receptive to any positive contribution that I can provide and make it easy to do. There's no reason EventGhost couldn't move farther in that direction.
Last edited by pearbear on Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How you can help

Postby jachin99 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:47 am

I know a handfull of people contribute quite a bit to the site and project, and I wasn't trying to insult anyone. I for one have been able to get better support than I do for most paid software but there are other areas that have a ways to go. Examples include logging into the site twice each visit, some grammar improvements, and maybe a bigger wiki. The plugins that still have support have really good support, and I like event ghost, and I want to see it succeed. One problem with my being enabled to help is who do I even turn documentation into? and who does have the necessary permissions to make changes? Before you brought it up kgschlosser, I didn't even know I could turn anything into you. If I submit changes, can you implement them on the website? I know there is a lot of discussion about the GitHub page but wouldn't it be simpler to focus efforts solely on the forum? Making it simple to contribute could also go a long ways. Maybe the leadership in the project could lay down some kind of ground work for things like this but without being well informed, and having a sense of direction, contributors will trickle in, get lost, and not come back. The idea is that they trickle in and stay. Once again, I'm not insulting the project, or those who contribute but I think there is a lot of work to do in terms of the contribution process.
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Re: How you can help

Postby kgschlosser » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:51 am

holy cow...

i was using the documentation thing as an example. not literal. I know it's inefficient, but at least it's a way to go about it. and yeah I would post something in the forum. or you can pass it off to me and i will make sure it gets to the right person. I know it's a crappy system. but it's the system we have right now. and using it would at least give EG some forward movement.

it's better then doing nothing at all

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Re: How you can help

Postby kgschlosser » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:55 am

jachin99 wrote:I know a handfull of people contribute quite a bit to the site and project, and I wasn't trying to insult anyone. I for one have been able to get better support than I do for most paid software but there are other areas that have a ways to go. Examples include logging into the site twice each visit, some grammar improvements, and maybe a bigger wiki. The plugins that still have support have really good support, and I like event ghost, and I want to see it succeed. One problem with my being enabled to help is who do I even turn documentation into? and who does have the necessary permissions to make changes? Before you brought it up kgschlosser, I didn't even know I could turn anything into you. If I submit changes, can you implement them on the website? I know there is a lot of discussion about the GitHub page but wouldn't it be simpler to focus efforts solely on the forum? Making it simple to contribute could also go a long ways. Maybe the leadership in the project could lay down some kind of ground work for things like this but without being well informed, and having a sense of direction, contributors will trickle in, get lost, and not come back. The idea is that they trickle in and stay. Once again, I'm not insulting the project, or those who contribute but I think there is a lot of work to do in terms of the contribution process.



dude you hit the nail on the head.

this is what i am trying to accomplish. some kind of a system. even if it's kinda screwy at least there is one. doing something that is a pain in the ass is at least still doing something and not just sitting there staring blankly at the screen.

all I am going is throwing ideas out there so that we might be able to get a little focus and start to move in a direction (hopefully not backwards)
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Re: How you can help

Postby pearbear » Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:50 am

kgschlosser wrote:you can pass it off to me and i will make sure it gets to the right person.

I'll take you up on that. Here's a fairly comprehensive edit of the documentation I did, focusing mainly on fixing typos, formatting, grammar, etc. rather than adding/correcting content:
https://github.com/EventGhost/EventGhost/pull/114
I'm not sure if the development path still involves the GitHub repository but the diffs produced by my commits can be used to make these changes to the documentation wherever that might be done these days.
There seems to be a bit of a long process to getting the documentation changes to the website. The documentation is also included with the EG application so the edits need to be merged to the application files, then transferred to the website as well. I'm not sure if this happens only when there is a release of EventGhost or if that can occur separately.
This is only for edits to the documentation. If someone can provide me edit access to the wiki I'm happy to do the same to those pages also.
If anyone wants to review my proposed edits and give any corrections, suggestions, feedback, criticism, etc. please do comment and I'll see if I can improve it.

I'd also like to propose a project that I think would be very helpful to EventGhost users. I'm willing to do as much of the work as possible but this will also require help from someone with forum admin privileges. The idea of a plugin repository goes back to the BitMonster days and I think everyone agrees this would be a great feature. However, there is no real consensus of how to implement it and any way you go it will require a lot of planning and skilled work. A more simple option is to just have a comprehensive list of every available EventGhost plugin. The Plugin Support section of the forum is a good step towards this but it's really a hassle trying to browse through 11 pages of topics to find useful plugins. My idea is that the Plugin Support forum section should consist of one and only one topic per plugin and no other topics. If people need support for a plugin then they should post to that plugin's thread. If they want to request a plugin to be written that should be done in the Feature Requests section, General Support(or maybe a new dedicated forum section?). If they need help writing a plugin then that should be done in Coding Corner. Here's what I can do:
  • Sort through every topic in the Plugin Support forum section and send the forum admin that agrees to work on this with me a list of links to the topics that need to be moved and where they should be moved to.
  • Create a topic for any plugins that don't already have a topic.
  • Propose a list of subsections to the Plugin Support forum section to organize the plugins by category
  • Send the forum admin that agrees to work on this with me a list of links to the topics that need to be moved to each plugin category section.
  • Propose wording for a revised Plugin Support forum section description that explains that only one topic for each plugin is allowed
  • Monitor the Plugin Support forum section and report any new topics that aren't for a plugin to an admin to be moved to the appropriate forum section.

Any interest from any of the forum admins in working on this with me? Any feedback on this proposal from anyone? It's not necessarily an all-or-nothing proposal. If the idea of organizing the plugins into categories isn't considered beneficial/possible then just cleaning out the single forum section will already be a huge benefit.
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