How you can help

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Re: How you can help

Postby kgschlosser » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:37 am

I am going to set up MySql and see if i can use the console to pull all the attached files. i think it may be easier this way.
If you like the work I have been doing then feel free to Image
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Re: How you can help

Postby dequi » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:50 pm

skribb wrote:Does Eventghost need a proper website?
Would it be cheaper to solely use github or any similar portal like that?

pearbear wrote:The website pays for itself and more:
zian wrote: Once we got Google AdSence here at the forum that income covers all the website expenses. Plus sum.


As best that I could figure from this post http://www.eventghost.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5656&p=27707&hilit=adsense#p29520 is that adsense is generating about 5.8$ a day since 1/1/2014 so calculated over 3 years the ad's should have generated about 6000$, so I think the Plus sum seems correct.

Altough I could be terribly wrong, ... but I haven't found a post to indicate that.

Don't know about donations, but apparently no-one does. The access I had got revoked the moment I offered to figure it out.

Regarding the website, I am a supporter to host it on GitHub, in order to get more people to contribute, and integrate the wiki posts in the site itself. Just keep the GoDaddy account for the forum. I have two weeks of vacation coming up, maybe I'll find some time to throw together a demo.

pearbear wrote:Who has access to the backups? That should be part of the inventory.

Well... me, altough last time I was able to do backup was beginning of September, since then zian revoked all rights that I had.
Not sure if forum backups have been made since then.
There are some other things mentioned wrong in the inventory, I'll try and update

pearbear wrote:it's unclear if the repository will continue to be active as Blackwind was managing it.

Sem;colon wrote:Is anyone able to accept pull requests on GitHub and can build a new release, if required???

pearbear wrote:I'm also curious why CarsonF is the only "People" listedin the EventGhost organization on GitHub. Does this mean that he is the only Owner in that organization? Again, I think Pako should be added to all these resources(assuming they're cool with that). The inventory would indicate that Pako is the only one with control over EventGhost/EventGhost repository which is definitely not a good thing but maybe CarsonF also has control over it?

pearbear wrote:I think the project would benefit from giving topic2k at least collaborator privileges in the EventGhost repository

As far as I know CarsonFull is the only publicly listed member the others are private, as from what I gathered talking with Blackwind and Carson (before the drama) is that Pako also is a member of the EventGhost Organisation on Github. As I understood it, he should also be able to make commits. If it is possible for him to onboard topic2k I don't know. Carson can do it for sure.

I reached out to Carson on Slack and by email to get at least topic2k on board but havn't heard back yet.

/dequi
Last edited by dequi on Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How you can help

Postby pearbear » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:51 pm

dequi wrote:Regarding the website, I am a supporter to host it on GitHub, in order to get more people to contribute, and integrate the wiki posts in the site itself. Just keep the GoDaddy account for the forum. I have two weeks of vacation coming up, maybe I'll find some time to throw together a demo.

Thanks! I agree with that. I think that trying to use GitHub for a forum would be a very bad idea but putting all the rest of the EventGhost website content there would be great because it makes it easier to contribute. Would you use GitHub Pages(either a project page in the gh-pages branch of the EventGhost/EventGhost repository or an organization page by creating a new repository named EventGhost.github.io) or just the wiki? I think either would be great but I'm probably more in favor of putting everything in the wiki and setting it to allow anyone to edit(which I believe is the current setting) because it makes it so much easier to contribute. The alternative requires someone to accept the pull request for each edit and there doesn't appear to be anyone willing and able to do that right now. Wiki edits are automatically accepted rather than being a pull request system. This does mean that it's easy for someone to vandalize or spam or just make a low quality edit but it's also easy enough for anyone to revert that edit. The key is that there are more people working to improve the wiki then there are people trying to mess it up. I certainly am willing to keep an eye on it and I'm sure others will do the same. I have not seen much of a problem of vandalism/spam in GitHub wikis(one vandalism in a few years of watching a couple wikis fairly closely) but I'm sure it happens.

I'm not sure what changes, if any, would need to be made to the build system to make it generate the documentation for GitHub rather than eventghost website. You can use HTML on the wiki but I don't think you could just drop in the current contents of the documentation pages to the wiki. I'm guessing the GitHub pages option would be less or no work in that area.

I noticed that about half of the wiki pages on this site are duplicated in the documentation section. That's really not a good thing because it makes it more work to keep both pages up to date. As I said, I'm willing to spend some time reviewing the remaining wiki content for typos, etc. and I probably have some content to contribute as well.

dequi wrote:As far as I know CarsonFull is the only publicly listed member the others are private, as from what I gathered talking with Blackwind and Carson (before the drama) is that Pako also is a member of the EventGhost Organisation on Github.

Weird, I didn't know it was possible to be a private member.

dequi wrote:I reached out to Carson on Slack and by email to get at least topic2k on board but havn't heard back yet.

Thanks! I think it might be a good idea to publicly announce the proposal to give topic2k access to the repository here on the forum in a dedicated topic and give a little time for input on the proposal before doing it to prevent any possible drama. I'm not talking about a democratic process, just a "speak now or forever hold your peace" sort of thing. I'm sure that anyone who knows the current management situation of that repository and has reviewed topik2k's contributions will agree that it's a good idea.
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Re: How you can help

Postby topix » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:49 pm

pearbear wrote:it's unclear if the repository will continue to be active as Blackwind was managing it.

Sem;colon wrote:Is anyone able to accept pull requests on GitHub and can build a new release, if required???

I (topic2k/topix) contacted blackwind and asked him to give me write/push/accept PR's rights, but he didn't.
And i am able to build (and surely others here too).

pearbear wrote:I'm also curious why CarsonF is the only "People" listedin the EventGhost organization on GitHub. Does this mean that he is the only Owner in that organization? Again, I think Pako should be added to all these resources(assuming they're cool with that). The inventory would indicate that Pako is the only one with control over EventGhost/EventGhost repository which is definitely not a good thing but maybe CarsonF also has control over it?

As far as i know, CarsonF did the inital convert from SVN to GIT. Then blackwind took over. I think they both have acces to the repository (not sure). I (topic2k) had never access to, i just made pull requests.

pearbear wrote:I think the project would benefit from giving topic2k at least collaborator privileges in the EventGhost repository

Thanks for the kind words :) 8)

pearbear wrote:I'm not sure what changes, if any, would need to be made to the build system to make it generate the documentation for GitHub rather than eventghost website. You can use HTML on the wiki but I don't think you could just drop in the current contents of the documentation pages to the wiki. I'm guessing the GitHub pages option would be less or no work in that area.

The documentation is written in reStructuredText and converted to html and chm with sphinx. I'm not sure about markdown. On the other hand i think GitHub also accepts ReST (have to read the GH docs). So the idea would be to put the docs in the wiki and import them from there when building. Then they would only need to be edited in one place.

I've set up another repo/organisation and if everyone is fine with it, we can use that for the next betas/rc's/etc.
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Re: How you can help

Postby dequi » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:52 pm

pearbear wrote:Would you use GitHub Pages(either a project page in the gh-pages branch of the EventGhost/EventGhost repository or an organization page by creating a new repository named EventGhost.github.io) or just the wiki?

Personally I'm thinking like this: The eventGhost.github.io repository already exists and houses some files in a /dist/dependencies directory, so it's best to build on this as it already exists. I'm currently looking at Hugo :: A fast and modern static website engine https://gohugo.io/ with a modified/simplified template based on the hugo-universal-theme http://themes.gohugo.io/hugo-universal-theme/. Hugo is a self contained executable on windows so none of that node/framework dependency bloat to build and you get a version that you can upload to any type of hosting.

Tutorials and Documentation could be simple markdown posts in specific categories. I currently already have translated all Tutorials on the wiki and forum to markdown with all images. But got swamped at work, the drama hit the fan, so I stopped work on it.

I'm not sure yet if the source of the website (markdown) should be in a separate repository and the build (static html) in eventGhost.github.io or that the source should be in a source branch at the eventghost.github.io repository. I think a branch will confuse a lot of newcomers who want to help.

As far as for the GitHub wiki thing; don't like the way pages are displayed in a menu, nor the fact that you don't have versioning control. What if someone decides to delete it all.

pearbear wrote:Thanks! I think it might be a good idea to publicly announce the proposal to give topic2k access to the repository here on the forum in a dedicated topic and give a little time for input on the proposal before doing it to prevent any possible drama.

Well I came across this https://github.com/Project-EventGhost/EventGhost most likely started by topic2k as he is the only follower but I feel we havn't explored all options to get him access to the origional repository. I'd rather try to get at least him access than that we get a rift/split/clone type of thing going. I don't feel that's in the best interest of the project.
A democratic process just wont work.

If carson doesn't respond, step two would be get a hold of Pako and check what access he really has. I fear that he doesn't know GitHub very well in order to give topic2k access. But that could also be resolved with a small tutorial to him or maybe get a skype or teamviewer type conference going in order to guide him.

If all that fails then I might support for a move away from the original eventghost github account, but for now we havn't persuid all options available.

/dequi
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Re: How you can help

Postby dequi » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:56 pm

topix wrote:I've set up another repo/organisation and if everyone is fine with it, we can use that for the next betas/rc's/etc.


Ha, my assumptions are correct, didn't see your post before posting my answer. But at this time I still stand by not rushing to split off.

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Re: How you can help

Postby jachin99 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:08 am

One thing to consider, and this is mostly coming from my limited point of view. Users who are used to browsing forums, and might not be familiar with how a GitHub page works would probably benefit from an explanation of exactly what that page does, and how it differs from the forum. I understand things like GitHub are more technical in nature, whereas forums are user friendly but I can't say that I could explain how the two differ to another person. Another helpful thing would be that once permissions are sorted out, the role of each member could be posted so contributors know where to turn to for help with their contributions. Finally, for the forum, it could also be beneficial for members or leadership to get ahold of the authors of some of the top EG developers, and ask and or help them for dummy proof tutorials setting up their programs. Off of the top of my head, I'm thinking plugins like Sun Tracker, and the Web Server plugins would benefit from this.
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Re: How you can help

Postby pearbear » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:33 am

topix wrote:I (topic2k/topix) contacted blackwind and asked him to give me write/push/accept PR's rights, but he didn't.

From what I can tell, Blackwind no longer has any administrative privileges in the repository:

I think they probably left the repository or organization.

dequi wrote:I think a branch will confuse a lot of newcomers who want to help.

I think if there is just some clear documentation of how proposed changes to the website should be done then it wouldn't be an issue. You can just add a link to the branch. You can set the source branch as the default branch on GitHub so that branch will be automatically selected when they visit the repository. If they're really a newcomer then they may be making the edit solely on GitHub and won't even notice what branch they're in. If they're using git then they should know enough to be able to find the correct branch to edit.

dequi wrote:As far as for the GitHub wiki thing; don't like the way pages are displayed in a menu

I agree the GitHub wiki layout is not ideal but it does work if you're not too picky about aesthetics. The EventGhost documentation and Wiki pages are actually fairly similar already to how they would look if moved to the GitHub wiki. The menu would move to the right hand side and the search box and background colors would be lost.

dequi wrote:As far as for the GitHub wiki thing; don't like the way pages are displayed in a menu, nor the fact that you don't have versioning control. What if someone decides to delete it all.

There is revision history. For example:
https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/wiki/Arduino-IDE-1.5-3rd-party-Hardware-specification/_history
I don't like GitHub's online revision history for wikis as much as their standard repository version control or wikipedia but it is usable. You can always clone the wiki and edit it locally and then the version control is just as good as any other git repository.

dequi wrote:What if someone decides to delete it all.

You can always revert any commit, including deletions. This can't be done on GitHub so it will take someone knowledgeable enough to clone the repository, revert the deletion, then push the revert commit to the remote to do this but from my experience with GitHub wikis I don't think it will be a common occurrence.

I'm not necessarily trying to campaign for using GitHub wiki. I do think it has some definite advantages, especially if there is not going to be anyone actively administering the repo, but there are disadvantages also.

dequi wrote:I feel we havn't explored all options to get him access to the origional repository. I'd rather try to get at least him access than that we get a rift/split/clone type of thing going. I don't feel that's in the best interest of the project.

I agree, stick with the original repository unless there is no way to rescue it. I think CarsonF will come through eventually. If there is no response on Slack or email there is still the contact options of giving him a mention(@CarsonF) on the relevant issue:
https://github.com/EventGhost/EventGhost/issues/113
He's very active on GitHub.
A PM here on the forum would be another option(user namecfull1).

dequi wrote:A democratic process just wont work.

I specifically said I wasn't talking about a democratic process.

jachin99 wrote:Users who are used to browsing forums, and might not be familiar with how a GitHub page works would probably benefit from an explanation of exactly what that page does, and how it differs from the forum.

As far as viewing the website hosted on GitHub, there will be no difference from the current http://www.eventghost.net. You probably won't even be able to tell it's hosted on GitHub. The difference is that the source code will be publicly available for anyone to easily submit proposals for improvements. Using git and GitHub is a bit more complicated but there is a lot of information already available on doing it. I do think there should be clear documentation available, probably on the Contributing page, of the process for proposing changes to the website content as well as the EventGhost code. Users who don't want to learn to use GitHub can always just report bugs or feature requests in the appropriate sections of the forum and hopefully someone with the proper skills will pick that up and move it forward to GitHub.

jachin99 wrote:it could also be beneficial for members or leadership to get ahold of the authors of some of the top EG developers, and ask and or help them for dummy proof tutorials setting up their programs. Off of the top of my head, I'm thinking plugins like Sun Tracker, and the Web Server plugins would benefit from this.

This is actually the sort of thing where I think beginners have a bit of an advantage. People with a lot of experience forget the beginner perspective and take it for granted that everyone else will have a similar level of knowledge to theirs. Someone who has recently been through the learning process has the beginner's perspective still fresh in their mind and thus can create documentation that is more useful to those who need it most.
Last edited by pearbear on Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How you can help

Postby dequi » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:32 am

pearbear wrote:You can set the source branch as the default branch on GitHub so that branch will be automatically selected when they visit the repository.

Yes, I think that way should work. Better than setting up a separate repository. Mind you just like many here I'm a n00b at this GitHub thing. Learning some new stuff every day.

dequi wrote:As far as for the GitHub wiki thing; don't like the way pages are displayed in a menu, nor the fact that you don't have versioning control. What if someone decides to delete it all.
pearbear wrote: There is revision history.

Hmm, must have missed that. I'll look in to that. But correct me if I'm wrong but it's not really forkable or editable using the GitHub Desktop application.

pearbear wrote:If there is no response on Slack or email there is still the contact options of giving him a mention(@CarsonF) on the relevant issue:
https://github.com/EventGhost/EventGhost/issues/113
He's very active on GitHub.
A PM here on the forum would be another option (user name cfull1).

Right, even more options... I'll give him some time to respond before reaching out trough a GitHub mention.
In the meanwile if pako is following along, here are the two guides needed to onboard a new owner to a GitHub organisation:
https://help.github.com/articles/inviting-users-to-join-your-organization/
https://help.github.com/articles/changing-a-person-s-role-to-owner/

jachin99 wrote:Users who are used to browsing forums, and might not be familiar with how a GitHub page works would probably benefit from an explanation of exactly what that page does, and how it differs from the forum.
pearbear wrote:As far as viewing the website hosted on GitHub, there will be no difference from the current http://www.eventghost.net.

Might be a bit more involved to get it like that, first priority should be to try and get some life back in https://github.com/EventGhost/EventGhost
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Re: How you can help

Postby pearbear » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:57 am

dequi wrote:Mind you just like many here I'm a n00b at this GitHub thing. Learning some new stuff every day.

I've been using it for a few years now but I'm still pretty clueless about the really advanced git and GitHub stuff. I just learn enough to figure out what I need to do as I go along and try to keep good notes for how to repeat actions I only do occasionally. There are so many options for every git command and different ways to do any given thing that it gets pretty confusing fast. GitHub is pretty simple on the surface but has some pretty advanced features if you need them. I've learned a lot by watching how more experienced users maintain large open source projects on GitHub.

dequi wrote:correct me if I'm wrong but it's not really forkable or editable using the GitHub Desktop application.

It works similar to any normal repository. The wiki is actually a separate repository which is kind of hidden on GitHub. For example the EventGhost/EventGhost repository is https://github.com/EventGhost/EventGhost.git, the EventGhost/EventGhost wiki repository(which doesn't actually exist until someone clicks the "Create the first page" button) would be https://github.com/EventGhost/EventGhost.wiki.git. You can definitely use GitHub desktop. There's information on doing this here: https://help.github.com/articles/adding-and-editing-wiki-pages-locally. All you have to do is click the "Clone in Desktop" button at the bottom of the "Pages" menu on the right side of any wiki page. After cloning the wiki you can see the full commit history and diffs for each commit in GitHub Desktop. You can edit the markdown files in the repositoryname.wiki folder that was downloaded when you did the clone with any text editor and then use GitHub Desktop to make the commit and then click the "Sync" button to push it to the remote repository. That's the biggest difference I see with the wiki. Usually if you're not a collaborator in a repository you would need to submit a pull request for your commit(s) and then one of the admins of that repository would need to merge the pull request. With the wikis anyone can make an edit and push it to the wiki repository.

So you would typically clone a wiki instead of forking it. If you fork a repository that has a wiki your fork will have a blank wiki. That's because the wiki is actually a separate repository that didn't automatically get forked. If you wanted to add the content of the original repository's wiki to your fork you would do something like(using a repository named foo/bar for an example):

Open the foo/bar repository wiki.
Click the "Clone in Desktop" button.
Fork the foo/bar repository(or you could just create a new repository if you only want to fork the wiki). For example, the forked repository name is pearbear/bar
Open the pearbear/bar wiki
Click the "Create the first page" button.
Click the "Save page" button. The content of the page doesn't matter, it will be overwritten. You just need to create the first page to create the wiki repository.
In GitHub Desktop, right click the bar.wiki repository and click "Open in Git Shell"
Type:
Code: Select all
git push -f https://github.com/pearbear/bar.wiki.git

The content of the original wiki will be pushed to your fork's wiki. The reason you have to do a force push is because the commit for the first page you created to initialize the wiki must be overwritten since it throws your wiki's repo out of sync with the original wiki's repo.

After doing that you can clone your own fork's wiki as you did with the original and use GitHub Desktop to push commits to it. You can't submit standard pull requests to the original repo to merge your commits but you could submit an issue with a request to merge your commits into their wiki, which they can do using git. This is a way to contribute edits to a wiki you don't have edit permissions for.

dequi wrote:
pearbear wrote:As far as viewing the website hosted on GitHub, there will be no difference from the current http://www.eventghost.net.

Might be a bit more involved to get it like that

I think this is the relevant information: https://help.github.com/articles/using-a-custom-domain-with-github-pages/ but I don't think it's a really big deal whether it has the eventghost.org/net domain. I suppose you could leave the EventGhost home page hosted where it is and just change the Documentation and Wiki links to point to the relevant eventghost.github.io pages.
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Re: How you can help

Postby kgschlosser » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:23 am

I would love to help with the coding process of eg. I know i have a lot of improvements to make in how i code. but i learn very quickly. and i have a real good handle on how eg was coded. and where things are and how they function. (no small task mind you), and i do have some pretty good ideas and also some really crappy ones. but i do listen to direction and I would love to be able to help improve the functionality of EG
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Re: How you can help

Postby dequi » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:57 am

dequi wrote:I'm not sure yet if the source of the website (markdown) should be in a separate repository and the build (static html) in eventGhost.github.io or that the source should be in a source branch at the eventghost.github.io repository. I think a branch will confuse a lot of newcomers who want to help.

Couldn't get the branch thing figured out (just yet). I'm thinking a separate repository will be much easier, like eventghost.github.io-source
I've got a very far from finished demo running on https://dequi.github.io on how I see the the tutorials (now in the blog section) integrated in the site, with categories and tags for easy browsing
I also think that as long as there is no plugin repository we should at least have a managed list as primary citizen on the site.
/dequi
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Re: How you can help

Postby kgschlosser » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:38 am

ya know. how did my thread get hijacked?!?!? this was supposed to be about what you know and how you can help EG. and what roll could you see yourself taking on.

LOL

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Re: How you can help

Postby dequi » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:53 am

kgschlosser wrote:...how did my thread get hijacked?!?!? this was supposed to be about what you know and how you can help EG. and what roll could you see yourself taking on.

Oops totally have read the title of the thread wrong :roll: I could swear it said: how you do help :lol:

Hi, my name is dequi

I'm the reason blackwind and zian got into a fit and blackwind ended up leaving the project. You can read all about it in the infamous drama thread here http://www.eventghost.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9068. I can assure you my intentions were good, and I'm really sorry how it all turned out.

So...one of the things I know is... how to start a fight :twisted: Just kidding, I mean... how to start a discussion. 8)

As a result I have had some talks with blackwind and cfull1 and I think I can help by getting topix/topic2k access to the EventGhost GitHub repository. It goes deep with blackwind so I don't expect him back or responding at all. (I could elaborate but it wouldn't serve any purpose at all). cfull1 just got married and is super busy at work. We need to be a bit patient, but he'll come around. I hope.

I'm good at over-analysing stuff and figuring things out. So I already compiled a list of this project resources http://www.eventghost.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9068#p42128 but it needs some updates.

I do know some programming like PHP, Visual Basic, Javascript but no Python. I also know some web related technologies like HTML, CSS, MySQL. Other things include some Photoshop editing. I'm getting to know Git/GitHub. All in all pretty basic stuff, nothing spectacular.

Because of the above zian gave me access to the EventGhost goDaddy account to fix some small stuff on the website that had been broken for many years, but suddenly revoked all access again (till this day I still don't know why). Nevertheless I have a grasp of how everything is "organised", and I was able to make a backup (none were available). I also know the Wiki and phpBB messageboard versions are not the latest and have documented security issues, but didn't get a chance to fix them.

My day job exists of managing the production, maintenance, and ict departments of a small chemical production company. I've build and wrote all automation software myself and they are based on National Instrument Fieldpoint and Moxa ioLogic E12xx devices, I have some Beckhoff stuff in there as well.

I don't have a particular role I want to take on, but I feel I could help by integrating the tutorials (now spread out on the Wiki, forum, and documentation) into a single static EventGhost website that can be hosted at GitHub. (that is how I'm learning how to use Git/GitHub). This would give the opportunity to leave the broken Wiki behind and get more contributions going, if we get access to the repository again.

also, I've been told to be a patient man.

and now back to work :wink:
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Re: How you can help

Postby eirik226 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:38 pm

dequi wrote:
kgschlosser wrote:...how did my thread get hijacked?!?!? this was supposed to be about what you know and how you can help EG. and what roll could you see yourself taking on.

Oops totally have read the title of the thread wrong :roll: I could swear it said: how you do help :lol:

Hi, my name is dequi

I do know some programming like PHP, Visual Basic, Javascript but no Python. I also know some web related technologies like HTML, CSS, MySQL. Other things include some Photoshop editing. I'm getting to know Git/GitHub. All in all pretty basic stuff, nothing spectacular.

Because of the above zian gave me access to the EventGhost goDaddy account to fix some small stuff on the website that had been broken for many years, but suddenly revoked all access again (till this day I still don't know why).


Totally unrelated, but since you have done some work, and might do some more if you get access. Pretty please, add this:

https://postimage.org/site-plugins/

The number of pictures I've uploaded because of eventghost is "too damn high".
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