Media Wiki

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kgschlosser
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Media Wiki

Post by kgschlosser » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:51 am

I have fixed the access issues with the Media Wiki page. this is a GREAT thing.

Took me some time to find the problems and to correct them. But this has been a topic of conversation. For those of you that are willing to spend the time to document the various bits of EG and would like to have access to modify the wiki drop a line in here and let me know which pieces you would like to work on. I want to keep a nice list of who is doing what and when a proposed finish date for the addition is. this way we will not have more then one person working on the same thing. So all of those that have been wanting to see EG grow this is the way to do it. we need to remove haze that has been hovering over EG. and that haze is it's extreme lack of documentation. so all those that are willing we are ready to get that ball rolling.

I want to personally offer a motivational tool. I am willing to donate my Samsung UN55D8000 55" 3D LED 1080P TV to the person that adds the most documentation to the wiki. And for those of you willing to up the pot on this you can donate cash money to my Donate button and I will do a 1st 2nd 3rd place prize.


This documentation has to meet the following criteria

- Simple to follow
- Non geek vocabulary
- Screen Shots with arrows and circles pointing out the piece being discussed if a part being discussed is about some other software or even a piece of technology. you need to either have photos and or screen shots doesn't matter if the software is on a cell phone.
- Organized information
- Definitions of geek vocabulary if it has to be used.
- Progressive examples. Beginner, Advanced, Expert

Plugin documentation requirements.
- Images or logos of software/hardware being controlled or data collected from transparent background PNG's
- Credit and or recognition to authors/engineers/builders/companies of other software/hardware.
- If permission to access or use an API from the software/hardware company is needed then get it and include that in the wiki as well. last thing we want to do is step on anyone's toes. I personally would like to see that obtained for all plugins even if it is in the form of a GNU license

if there is anything else i am missing then let me know. We want to make this one of the best documented HA products out there.

I am not going to be the person to choose the winner. The members of this forum will. There will be a minimum number of added features/plugins to qualify. I would like to hear some inputs on the number.

I will post some photos in the coming days I have to get the TV out of storage, It has not been used in about 2 years but is in full working condition with no issues/scratches and includes all original documentation/box/manuals/accessories. I have to work on shipping details and not sure if I would be able to send it over seas. I will need to think of something that we can do for the people that are not in the US. We don't want to exclude them.
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Re: Media Wiki

Post by pearbear » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:52 am

Oh wow! This is great news. Great work. The reason I first signed up for an account on this site five years ago was to try to edit that wiki and it's been very frustrating to me ever since that there was a "wiki" that actually nobody could edit even though it really needs some work.

A major problem is that there are duplicate pages in the documentation and the wiki. The content needs to be sorted between the two so there are no duplicate pages, otherwise it will lead to a lot of duplicate effort.

I think the duplicate page "Short Manual" is most appropriate for the documentation and so it needs to be removed from the wiki. I don't see any way to delete a page. Would you please do that kgschlosser?

The other duplicate pages are:
Controlling your living room with EventGhost
X10 Remotes
I think both of those are more appropriate in the wiki. I made some improvements to the content of those pages in the documentation 6 months ago so I will merge that work over to the wiki and then submit a pull request to remove those documentation pages from the GitHub repository. So please hold off on making any edits to those pages for now. I'll comment here as soon as I get them updated. Unfortunately it seems that the work on the documentation in the GitHub repository doesn't actually make it to the website. I suppose this is because we haven't gotten a real release, only release candidates for the last 1.5 years. So the duplicate content problem will persist with the "Controlling your living room with EventGhost" page until the website documentation is actually updated. The X10 page is not so much of a problem because, even though it's in the documentation, it's not in the documentation index so it's somewhat hidden.

Another problem of duplicate content is theGitHub wiki. I was a supporter of the concept of switching to the GitHub wiki as an alternative to the one on this website when it was broken but having two wikis is a terrible idea and now that the wiki on this website is working again it's essential to merge any content from the GitHub wiki and then disable it so no more time is wasted on that project. I will do that work also.

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Re: Media Wiki

Post by pearbear » Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:09 pm

OK, I have merged the "Controlling your living room with EventGhost" and "X10 Remotes" content from the documentation so anyone else can feel free to edit those pages.

Here's a useful tip for anyone who wants to monitor changes to the wiki: Use your favorite RSS reader to subscribe to the RSS feed for the "Recent changes" wiki page:
[url]feed://www.eventghost.net/mediawiki/index.php? ... &feed=atom[/url]
then you will get a notification for every edit to the wiki. I will do a quick review of every change to make sure there has been no spam or vandalism. If a few of us can commit to doing this then the admins can feel more free to allow edit privileges, resulting in more contributions.

I know there is a usergroup named "wiki" that you can apply to be a member of. Is that required in order to have wiki edit privileges kgschlosser or does any user have edit privileges? If the former, that should definitely be documented in the wiki.

I notice that the links to both the "User Contributed Configs" are broken. Apparently the website was eventghost.biz at one point. I managed to find one of them using the Wayback Machine but the wiki only allows png, gif, jpg, jpeg file types to be uploaded so I can't fix that link. I think it would make sense to also allow .xml and .egtree files, otherwise users will be forced to host their contributed configurations elsewhere, which will lead to many more broken links over time.

The other user contributed config link is http://eventghost.biz/files/NotePad++_J ... oolbar.zip, which was not archived by the Wayback Machine. If that file is not still stored anywhere then the page should be deleted as it's useless. As you can see, it's quite a hassle that users apparently can't delete wiki pages. It would be nice if that was possible, but only if it can be reverted.

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Re: Media Wiki

Post by kgschlosser » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:03 pm

@pearbear

If you would like this responsibility I would like to make you the guy who heads up the docs. I was going to send you an e-mail and ask ya. and yes you have to be a member of the wiki group. I do think this needs to stay the same for reasons of bots and things like that because the wiki uses the same credentials as the forum I do not know if a bot would go and put things in the wiki when it isn't supposed to. I do not think that others would put any kind of BS in it. or mess it up. my fear is strictly the bots. But I do also want to keep the wiki standardized so if you read one doc and then another it would be hard to tell who wrote which one. I would like to keep the information in it structured. I do think you have the most knowledge on how to do this. and you would make it possible to have the best documentation possible.

all i can do is press the button and if anyone objects to making you to go to documentation guy speak up. or if there is someone else that wants the job let us know. I do know that pearbear has always been asking about the wiki and how it should be organized and wants to make fixes and updates. and if he wants the job i think he would be the best person suited for it. but this is a community so we can put it to a vote. I will make a poll. but before I do that is it something you would be willing to do pearbear?
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Re: Media Wiki

Post by pearbear » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:18 pm

Sure, I'd be willing to take on that responsibility if that will be helpful to the EG project. I'm also quite happy to let someone else do it. The great thing about wikis is that everyone can contribute as much or little as they like without requiring special status. I see from the Active users list that Jitterjames has some sort of administrative position already. I also see that topix is the top contributor. So either of them might be good candidates.

I've done a lot of work on the Arduino Playground wiki, quite a bit on the Arduino GitHub wiki, and occasional contributions to wikipedia.

I monitor the first two and certain wikipedia pages closely and I haven't seen very much spam or vandalism. At one point Arduino had severely limited access to the Playground because of some spam. I went back through all the edit history and it ended up being something like 50 spam or vandalism edits over 7 years. That's with a project several orders of magnitude more popular than EG that was completely open to public editing over those years. It took me maybe 4 hours to clean it all up and ever since I've just done a quick check of every edit when I get the RSS notification and hit the revert button when necessary. So there was some abuse but the scale was so minor that one person can easily manage it by volunteering a few minutes a week. Balance that against the tremendous amount of quality content that is contributed. So I think it's worth considering opening it up for a trial period to see how significant the abuse issue really is. We need all the contributors we can get so it makes sense to impose the least possible number of restrictions.

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Re: Media Wiki

Post by kgschlosser » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:38 am

my thing is the formatting of the information contained in it. I really do want it to be uniform. adding people is not a huge issue it just gives us the opportunity to explicitly state to the person asking to add something what the expectations are and how we want things done with it. I do understand that we can make a wiki on how to post to the wiki but not everyone will read it. and I do know the information can be reformatted the way we would like it. but it's the screen shots and photos of specific equipment that we might not be able to add later on. Let me know what you think about this.

and JitterJames has not been active on this forum in a very long time. if memory serves he is the creator of VoxCommando. I could be wrong in that. and he is also one of the people that did a lot of the back end work when everything shifted from bitmonster. the reason why the wiki stopped functioning is the path for the forum location was incorrect as well as the database password. But I will add you as the head of the wiki unless someone has some kind of objection. and if you do speak now or forever hold your peace!.
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Re: Media Wiki

Post by pearbear » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:08 am

What are the plans for the "List of Plugins" page of the wiki?

The reason I ask is because I know you had recently started a conversation with Dequi about the plugin repository:
https://github.com/dequi/eg-PluginDatabase/issues/1
I think it would be a good idea to make it clear whether it's worth putting effort into editing the "List of Plugins" wiki page. If the plugin repository work is going to soon render any work on that wiki page pointless then people should know about it.

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Re: Media Wiki

Post by dequi » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:13 am

Great you have restored access to the mediawiki!
Is it still the same version? As I know that for a higher security patch supported you need a php version higher then godaddy is providing.

I for one am in full support of a "single information point" meaning not having it scattered/duplicated everywhere. In that light feel free to close down the GitHub Wiki asap it was an attempt to contribute with documentation but I got stuck porting the documentation part basically due to the limited options in the GitHub Wiki. I couldn't do anything that formed a structure like "documentation/v0.0.5/..."
nor did I have a solution of how to get from the documentation files in the _build folder to the GitHub Wiki or how to include into the _build process.

So now I'll invest the limited time I have in better understanding mediaWiki :D
/dequi

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Re: Media Wiki

Post by dequi » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:26 am

Moving Tutorials and Guides from the forum to the mediaWiki could also help with the attachment issue you are batteling.
/dequi

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Re: Media Wiki

Post by pearbear » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:37 am

Hi Dequi, I have added you to the wiki Usergroup so you now are able to edit the wiki!

I added all the plugins from the Plugins page of the GitHub wiki to the Plugins page of the eventghost.org wiki. I realize this effort may be made pointless by future developments but I thought that having any unique content in the GitHub wiki might block it being disabled so I went ahead and did it anyway.

The other unique content in the GitHub wiki was the Command line documentation. Since that was a documentation page rather than a wiki page I have submitted a pull request to add that content to the documentation.

So I believe that preserves all the content of the GitHub wiki and it can now be disabled when topix gets the time to do so, as I have requested. When that happens the content of the wiki will not be lost, it will just not be available. If for some reason we decide that we need it back the GitHub wiki can be re-enabled and all the content you created will still be there.

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Re: Media Wiki

Post by pearbear » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:58 am

I like the idea of moving the tutorials to the wiki. It makes more sense to me than using a forum thread. I would be willing to add that content to the wiki but if the forum threads aren't deleted after the content is moved then it results in duplicate content. I can't delete the forum threads so I would need to work with someone who has the ability to delete the threads.

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Re: Media Wiki

Post by dequi » Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:28 pm

Well, wait a minute... the MediaWiki is an old version that needs security patches, and the latest version uses a php version that the goDaddy hosting is not offering, so you can't really update. You might want to do it the other way around and disable the MediaWiki.
dequi wrote:I got stuck porting the documentation part basically due to the limited options in the GitHub Wiki. I couldn't do anything that formed a structure like "documentation/v0.0.5/..."
nor did I have a solution of how to get from the documentation files in the _build folder to the GitHub Wiki or how to include into the _build process.
It appears that I had the "structure" problem mostly solved in a private test repo basically using the same principle as mediaWiki namespaces by naming pages v0.4.1: Command Line Options
v0.5.0: Command Line Options The part where I am stuck is the documentation structure and the difference between "prose written documentation" and "documentation generated from source code commenting" and how the help file is generated. Should you build the wiki from the code that generates the help file or do you build the helpfile from the wiki. Another question I was thinking about is localised/translated documentation

some posts that got me thinking (stuck :mrgreen: )

http://ericholscher.com/blog/2017/jan/2 ... cumenting/
http://ericholscher.com/blog/2014/feb/2 ... n-quality/
http://ericholscher.com/blog/2016/mar/1 ... ical-docs/
/dequi

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Re: Media Wiki

Post by kgschlosser » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:33 pm

@pearbear when you get the tutorials moved i will remove the posts. if you can do me a favor tho and key up some detailed instructions as to how you want to media wiki tutorials done up this way people know what to do. post that in the tutorials forum along with a link to the media wiki and also how they would obtain access to media wiki to add a tutorial
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Re: Media Wiki

Post by kgschlosser » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:50 pm

@dequi

well if you contain information in both the help wile and the Media Wiki that is duplicate content. is that what you guys want to do?. I thought the purpose was to not have duplicate content. I had mentioned to pearbear there is already concessions that have been made to allow the builder to connect to the media wiki. to what purpose I do not know. I would assume for updating the media wiki in some manner. I have never seen any code in EG for doing this so it may not have been used. but the real question now is.. if there is the media wiki... is there really a need to build a help file at all? should we do away with it and simply open up an internet explorer window and load that media wiki as the help? I know that there has been conversation about doing this and we really need to think about it. in all reality how many people run eventghost on a non internet attached PC? and how many of those instances do you think they would need access to some form of help from that computer?


more and more software made is going to an online help do we jump onto that bandwagon? It would reduce the need for a couple of extra components during the build process for sure. and it would not be all that hard to convert the use of sphinx into markdown. it would also eliminate the need to learn/known yet another kind of "language" if you will for the purposes of the help file.

I personally would like to see a page in the media wiki that would list the EG versions with all the changelog information for each version on it. the reason why I want to have that kind of information on there is ecause right now that information is on a server that we do not have control over... so if for some crazy reason github goes belly up tomorrow and they shutdown all of the servers that information is lost. if it is stored on a server we control and have the ability to make backups of the database all is not lost. i wish there was a way to have github or an extension of it run on our own systems and store all of the relevant information on our systems instead of on their servers. I know we can run an svn server but I think that would be going backwards in a sense compared to github. I simply do not like having to rely on other companies for things. they could at some point all of a sudden want to start charging people for public repos. and then a scramble takes place to move the content elsewhere. it's a pain to do that and it's worse when there is a time frame you have to do it in. we have all seen this kind of thing to many times. and out time is worth a whole lot and would rather not see us have to use it because of some knuckleheads decision.
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Re: Media Wiki

Post by kgschlosser » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:25 pm

ok i restate my opinion of the use of markdown. I have been reading more on sphinx and restructured text offers a whole lot more. I personally like the use of

Code: Select all

.. sectionauthor:: John Smith <js@python.org>
and I believe this should be implemented on any code changes. now it will not give any output in the docs unless it is specifically told to do so. but it offers all kinds of nice formatting. I am going to look for a cheatsheet I have been wanting to make docstrings for each and every single function/class/module i make but didn't know how i should do it and with what markup language.


@dequi

I do like the 3 links you provided. I share the same sentiments as that guy.
I do not believe that out code should house the "user" help it should house help information for the programmer. the reason is the code would get so clogged with documentation. I would rather want to see the code documented in geek for the programmer. and the output of the code docstrings can then be turned into user language by someone that is good at geek to english translation. do it the same way as translating something from english to german.. a person has to do it if it's going to be correct."Geek" is a foreign language and needs to be treated as such to get the best translation.

this will also allow for a developer to be able to explain something in their native language and not fumble the football trying to make it easier for the user to understand (which will always never work) we need to have a translator for this purpose. Now I do know of a technical writer that might be able to handle such a task. whether that person would want the job or has the time to on take such a thing i do not know. Or if they have even written things from a software standpoint i don't know. But I can ask.
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