How you can help

[zian]

I've got a very far from finished demo running on https://dequi.github.io on how I see the the tutorials (now in the blog section) integrated in the site, with categories and tags for easy browsing

That looks great D.
Get this website out of the 90's... into the 2000's. lol
Awesome.

[zian]

Totally unrelated, but since you have done some work, and might do some more if you get access. Pretty please, add this:

https://postimage.org/site-plugins/

The number of pictures I've uploaded because of eventghost is "too damn high".

You must have been reading my mind yesterday.
Why is it so darn complicated to share images on forums? It's crazy.

My biggest fear with this though us when/if the company closes. Or pivots.
All those nice pretty images turn into broken link icons.
Those SUCK.

This is a great idea. If it works and can last a long long time.
But I also know there are no guarantees.

[kgschlosser]

Ok dequi, loving the site. And the fact that it has a mobile version is awesome. One thing tho. The only thing I didn't care for and I don't know if it's by design. Is that the opening page is using posts from the forum. I am thinking that this would not be good because if someone is having an issue. Or someone has potty fingers. Not exactly what a first time visitor should see.

I think that a description of what EventGhost is is the most important thing. If you go into my github and in the source code in the images folder there should be a png called splash something or other. It'd high res but I do have it the image higher at something like 4000x 3000.

Now I don't know what people's thoughts are on this. But a slogan or a one liner that sums up what EG does.

I have one. Let me know what you think.

"Putting the Auto in Automation"

Now I didn't say home automation due to the fact that EG is not limited to just a house.

I like it. And it's simple and states exactly what EG does in the smallest number or words posdible

[kgschlosser]

I am thinking that on the first page should be what's new. As in what has been changed in the latest release. But most important is how these changes will make EG work better for the user.

And second should be what's EG's next goal. What is the next obstacle or challenge to overcome. And why we want to take on that challenge. And how this will benefit the user.

Always always always explain how something is going to help the user. That is what they really want to know. How can this make MY life better/easier how can this benefit ME.

[zian]

"Putting the Auto in Automation"

Now I didn't say home automation due to the fact that EG is not limited to just a house.

I don't like it.
Isn't all Automation pretty much automatic?

And that makes it sound so simple. Easy. Like it takes no work.
But it does take work. To set up and learn. It is hard for some people.
Maybe impossible for many (they need not apply).

Girder is HARD! (very hard for me)
Girder costs money.

Eventghost is powerful. And sort of easy once you figure it out.
It is often updated. Many many people working on it.
Plugins out the wazoo. Can do damn near anything.
Works great around the home. It is free.
It is opensource. Blahblahblah


It can be auto.
But so is AUTOmation.
Auto is great. But for me it's about using buttons on one remote/panel to skip commercials, feed my dog and water the plants etc etc.

I think slogens or intros are OK.
List features. Show what it can do.
Let the program speak for it's self.
The shit is so good we don't need to "sell" it.

I wonder how popular EG is compared to other similar softwares.
How many people use it daily? How many times has it been downloaded?
Installed etc.

Ya' know.... I think BitMonster could have made millions off this program (or at least 1).
Instead he shared it. Cool fucking dude that guy.

keep it simple (to start)

[kgschlosser]

Nope it's not. Take Xfinity for example. Turn your lights on and off. From an app in your phone. You still have to pick up the phone and press a button to turn it on or off. What's automatic about that?? And you tell me what system that is out there now. Will do something like this.

If someone rings my doorbell it will mute any audio pause a movie on any screen in the house. And pop up the security camera as an osd on any TV that is turned on.

Now that's automatic. And that's because of EG

[zian]

And that's because of EG

... and you.

[kgschlosser]

well yeah me because i had to "figure it out" but see that's where we need to make a huge change. the user shouldn't be left to swing out there in the breeze once downloading it. we need to give them the tools to use EG and one of the biggest is documentation. and also simplifying the scripting process for them. I have been trying to think of a way to do that because the python scripts are where the real power of EG shines. it would be a pretty large undertaking but every function and method in EG needs to have a doc string explaining what the function is. the name of each parameter what gets passed to that parameter (like an int or a str) and what the parameter does i am pretty sure i can come up with something kind of like what the python shell does and builds a list of all of the different functions and methods using the doc string as the description. maybe add keywords to the doc string as well so the user can search based on what they want to accomplish. but we really do need someone that can turn geek in normal language that a person that does not know how to code would be able to understand.

or maybe make some kind of panel to build the code for them and all they have to do is click different buttons to add things. i like this method better. not to do complicated code. but to do simple tasks.


now i do not mind documenting what something does. but there needs to be some kind of format standard so if someone wants to add to it. or if more then one person is helping document it will still all be formatted the same way.
and a prime example of how NOT to document is wx. now their phoenix documentation is better and i do like the format of things but they really lack in the department of method descriptions and also parameter descriptions.

and I know that we don't have to sell it. and providing a description of what it does and what the future additions are is not trying to sell it. it keeping the user informed of what's going on. I can tell you this. i don't know how long ago that webpage was put up but it was a pretty long time ago. and it really looks like something made with frontpage (meaning it's dated) ya know what i would love to see... if/when the page gets upgraded. the ability to enter a forum pot without the text rolling off the screen and over the apply button. causing me to have to turn the screen on my phone and exit the keyboard to see the button... and the having to log in 2 times is kinds frustrating as well. tho that normally only occurs when i am using my phone but it does happen sometimes on the PC and also if you have to login again after you type up a post. it logs you in but then plops you back to entering a post but the text is gone. and if you back up to get back to the page where you entered the post. the text is gone there as well...

[dequi]

The only thing I didn't care for and I don't know if it's by design. Is that the opening page is using posts from the forum.

Opening page leaves much to be desired, was focusing my efforts first on the "plugin list", and getting the "tutorials" integrated.
I saw it as a two week project (taking some well deserved time-off - well it was kinda mandatory), a couple of hours a day: so there is some time left.

we need to give them the tools to use EG and one of the biggest is documentation.

Personally I don't agree the documentation is the biggest concern. It's the second biggest. The biggest is a plugin database. There are loads of third party plugins that don't come included that a new user does not know about. or where to find the forum thread that houses the documentation needed.

You don't really need a package manager to solve this problem, a simple plugin index/list can do this while a package manager is in the works. That is where I could use some help from all plugin developpers - even help from others is appreciated.

but I'm not sure where it's suited to ask the question, here or in the plugin section? I'll try here (If this isn't the best place - don't hesitate to move my ass)

To all (third-party) plugin developpers: could you provide a list of all the plugins that you wrote, or are currently supporting? in a following way:
I used the Sonos plugin as an example

Code: Select all

name: Sonos
source: https://github.com/techoguy/Full-SONOS-Control-For-EventGhost
description: Control your SONOS zone players
forum: http://www.eventghost.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6078
type: program 

name: ...
source: ...
description: ...
forum: ...
type: other, remote, external, program

source: where can a user find the latest version of your plugin?
forum: where can a user find your support[/color]

In a Utopian way the source should be a GitHub repository that houses the code, where issues could be raised, where a README.md gives you a getting started you need to know about the plugin, and a CHANGELOG.md with the plugin history. But I'll settle for the forum links for now. (If we can't get the developers to GitHub...)

This way I can focus my efforts while developing the new site on other topics.
Got the 'included' plugins already finished on the demo site: https://dequi.github.io/plugins/

[jachin99]

Here are a few caveats, and maybe an example of a simple coding interface...

Kgschlosser, I have noticed that when I log in on my phone or in Microsoft Edge, I have to do it twice but on my desktop chrome, I only need to login once. I can completely relate to the frustrations of losing a whole post because of a forum error because my school was the same way for a while. I wrote most of my posts in word, and copied and pasted them. Users SHOULD NOT have to go through this.

On a simple coding interface, I am thinking one example would be scratch from MIT. The first time I used it, I immediately thought of Event Ghost. The interface is childish but the functionality is really simple, and it lets users easily visualize the workings of their scripts. This tweaked to be more mature could be an answer, and its free and open source.

https://scratch.mit.edu/

Having a complete third party plugin bundled with the software is a big deal, and it would be very helpful to most users if plugins were bundled with thorough tutorials. I can't say that plugins or documentation are more important but i can see where new users will become frustrated, give up, and move on if they cannot figure out how to use the program, or a particular plugin. I know there are a few plugins I want to learn but its hard to find the time to do so.

For the website, this is something I am trying to learn. I would like to build a few CSS style pages and if given the opportunity, I can come up with a prototype. They aren't too hard to code because each "Sheet" is just a line of <div> code layed over a background if I'm not mistaken. The links are easy to build as well. Just a few thoughts, and take my one opinion for what its worth.

[topix]

but I'm not sure where it's suited to ask the question, here or in the plugin section? I'll try here (If this isn't the best place - don't hesitate to move my ass)

I think it would be best to make a separate thread, maybe in the General forum.

Got the 'included' plugins already finished on the demo site:

Do you edit the list manually or have that list created automatically from a database? Would it be possible to extract the information from an .egplugin-file (zip-file)? I ask because maybe we could share the same list with the plugin-manager?

[kgschlosser]

I would like to make a new thread in the main forum for discussion of the different expansion bits that are being worked on in EG. it think since there is now forward movement with things that people are working on. it's very important to organize this having crossing conversations with everything in one thread gets confusing to read.

lets put it to a vote.. yay or nay on the idea


yay

[zian]

well yeah me because i had to "figure it out" but see that's where we need to make a huge change. the user shouldn't be left to swing out there in the breeze once downloading it. we need to give them the tools to use EG and one of the biggest is documentation. and also simplifying the scripting process for them. I have been trying to think of a way to do that because the python scripts are where the real power of EG shines. it would be a pretty large undertaking but every function and method in EG needs to have a doc string explaining what the function is. the name of each parameter what gets passed to that parameter (like an int or a str) and what the parameter does i am pretty sure i can come up with something kind of like what the python shell does and builds a list of all of the different functions and methods using the doc string as the description. maybe add keywords to the doc string as well so the user can search based on what they want to accomplish. but we really do need someone that can turn geek in normal language that a person that does not know how to code would be able to understand.

or maybe make some kind of panel to build the code for them and all they have to do is click different buttons to add things. i like this method better. not to do complicated code. but to do simple tasks.


now i do not mind documenting what something does. but there needs to be some kind of format standard so if someone wants to add to it. or if more then one person is helping document it will still all be formatted the same way.
and a prime example of how NOT to document is wx. now their phoenix documentation is better and i do like the format of things but they really lack in the department of method descriptions and also parameter descriptions.

and I know that we don't have to sell it. and providing a description of what it does and what the future additions are is not trying to sell it. it keeping the user informed of what's going on. I can tell you this. i don't know how long ago that webpage was put up but it was a pretty long time ago. and it really looks like something made with frontpage (meaning it's dated) ya know what i would love to see... if/when the page gets upgraded. the ability to enter a forum pot without the text rolling off the screen and over the apply button. causing me to have to turn the screen on my phone and exit the keyboard to see the button... and the having to log in 2 times is kinds frustrating as well. tho that normally only occurs when i am using my phone but it does happen sometimes on the PC and also if you have to login again after you type up a post. it logs you in but then plops you back to entering a post but the text is gone. and if you back up to get back to the page where you entered the post. the text is gone there as well...

I agree K.

[pearbear]

I would like to make a new thread in the main forum for discussion of the different expansion bits that are being worked on in EG. it think since there is now forward movement with things that people are working on. it's very important to organize this having crossing conversations with everything in one thread gets confusing to read.

lets put it to a vote.. yay or nay on the idea

Sounds sensible. You're an admin so you should be able to split the topic at the point where it started being all about hosting the website on GitHub. I have comments on that topic but I'll wait for the new topic.

[kgschlosser]

no i know. that i can do. i just want to hear others thoughts on it. and any suggestions of how to organize. things if that nature. i think that this thread should be made so that only an admin or moderator can add a new topic. i would like to see it really be geared at different EG projects that are being worked on at the moment. and as things get decided as far as what to work on. then a moderator can add a new topic. i don't feel that having random topics created is ideal and it could draw focus away from what is really important and that would be the work at hand. and if by chance 2 topics need to converge in a way. then a new topic can be made at that point to discuss that specific piece.

these are ideas. nothing is etched in stone. and for all those that say there is nothing they can work on in eg. things like this do make a difference. and ideas on how to do greatly influence the direction of EG. so if you believe there is nothing you have to contribute to EG. you do. it's called a brain. and that brain does generate ideas. so let us have em. LOL